#ImageDescriptionMeta

Jupiter RowlandAre you referring to my mentions being @<a href="https://mspsocial.net/@bright_helpings" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Erik :heart_agender:</a> and @<a href="https://beige.party/@roknrol" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Roknrol</a> rather than what you're used to, namely <a href="https://mspsocial.net/@bright_helpings" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@⁠bright_helpings</a> and <a href="https://beige.party/@roknrol" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@⁠roknrol</a>? Using the long name rather than the short name and keeping the @ outside the link rather than making it part of the link? Likewise, the # being outside the hashtag link rather than being part of it? This is because I'm not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It has never been. So this is not a toot. No, really. This is what I post from: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland</a>, <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland</a>. I ask you: Does this look like Mastodon? Have you ever seen Mastodon look like this? Where I am, this style of mentions and hashtags is hard-coded. And it has been since long before Mastodon was even an idea. I'm on something named Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon fork either. Hubzilla has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon at all. It is its very own project, fully independent from Mastodon (<a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.org</a>, <a href="https://framagit.org/hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://framagit.org/hubzilla</a>, <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla</a>). Hubzilla has not intruded into "the Mastodon Fediverse" either. The Fediverse is older than Mastodon. And Hubzilla was there before Mastodon. Hubzilla was launched by @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a> in March, 2015, eight months before Mastodon, by renaming and redesigning his own Red Matrix from 2012, almost four years before Mastodon. And the Red Matrix was a fork of a fork of his own Friendica, which was launched on July 2nd, 2010, 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon. (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/Friendica</a>, <a href="https://friendi.ca" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://friendi.ca</a>, <a href="https://github.com/friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://github.com/friendica</a>, <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica</a>) Friendica was there before Mastodon, too. Here's the official Friendica/Hubzilla timeline on Hubzilla's official website to show you that I'm not making anything up: <a href="https://hubzilla.org/page/info/timeline" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.org/page/info/timeline</a>. Scroll all the way down and notice all the features that you may right now know for a fact that the Fediverse doesn't have, but that Friendica has introduced to the Fediverse 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon was launched. Again, Mastodon has never been its own network. The Fediverse has never been only Mastodon. When Mastodon was launched in January, 2016, it immediately federated with <ul><li>GNU social, the successor to @<a href="https://cosocial.ca/@evan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Evan Prodromou</a>'s StatusNet from 2008 (the actual start of the Fediverse, eight years older than Mastodon)</li><li>@<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a>'s Friendica, now maintained by @<a href="https://social.diekershoff.de/profile/tobias" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tobias</a> and @<a href="https://pirati.ca/profile/heluecht" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Michael 🇺🇦</a></li><li>@<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a>'s Hubzilla</li></ul> Friendica has been formatting mentions and hashtags the way I just did for 15 years now. When Mastodon was launched, Friendica has been formatting them that way for five and a half years already, and Hubzilla has done so for ten months. It is hard-coded there. It is not a user option. That's because not everything in the Fediverse is a Twitter clone or Twitter alternative. [b]Friendica was designed as a Facebook alternative with full-blown long-form blogging capability. And Hubzilla adds even more stuff to this. This is why Friendica and Hubzilla don't mimic Twitter. Another shocking fact: As you can clearly see here, Friendica and Hubzilla don't have Mastodon's 500-character limit. Friendica's character limit is 200,000. Hubzilla's character limit is 16,777,215, the maximum length of the database field. And it's deeply engrained in their culture, which is many years older than Mastodon's culture, to not worry about the length of a post exceeding 500 characters. One more shocking fact: Friendica has had quote-posts since its very beginning. So has Hubzilla. Both have always been able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot, and they will forever remain able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot. And Mastodon will never be able to do anything against it. (By the way: In 15 years of Friendica, nobody has ever used quote-posts for dogpiling or harassment purposes. Neither Friendica nor Hubzilla is Twitter.) You find this disturbing? You think none of this should exist in the Fediverse, even though all this has been in the Fediverse for longer than Mastodon? Then go ahead and block all instances of Friendica and Hubzilla as well as all instances of Mike's later creations, (streams) (<a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://codeberg.org/streams/streams</a>) from 2021 and Forte (<a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte</a>) from 2024. <ul><li><a href="https://friendica.fediverse.observer/list" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://friendica.fediverse.observer/list</a></li><li><a href="https://fedidb.com/software/friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://fedidb.com/software/friendica</a></li><li><a href="https://rumbly.net/communities?project=friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://rumbly.net/communities?project=friendica</a></li><li><a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=friendica</a></li><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=friendica</a></li><li><a href="https://hubzilla.fediverse.observer/list" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.fediverse.observer/list</a></li><li><a href="https://fedidb.com/software/hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://fedidb.com/software/hubzilla</a></li><li><a href="https://rumbly.net/communities?project=hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://rumbly.net/communities?project=hubzilla</a></li><li><a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=hubzilla</a></li><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=hubzilla</a></li><li><a href="https://rumbly.net/communities?type=streams_repository" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://rumbly.net/communities?type=streams_repository</a></li><li><a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?type=streams_repository" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?type=streams_repository</a></li><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?type=streams_repository" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?type=streams_repository</a></li><li><a href="https://rumbly.net/communities?project=forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://rumbly.net/communities?project=forte</a></li><li><a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/communities?project=forte</a></li><li><a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://streams.elsmussols.net/communities?project=forte</a></li></ul> Or you could go ask @<a href="https://pleroma.envs.net/users/Seirdy" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Seirdy / DM me the word "bread"</a> and @<a href="https://sunny.garden/@gardenfence" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Garden Fence Blocklist</a> as well as @<a href="https://h-i.social/@are0h" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mad Villain</a> of @<a href="https://h-i.social/@thebadspace" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">The Bad Space</a> to add every last instance on any of these lists to their blocklists for being "rampantly and unabashedly ableist and xenophobic by design" due to not being and acting and working like Mastodon and just as rampantly and unabashedly refusing to fully adopt and adapt to the Mastodon-centric "Fediverse culture" as defined by fresh Twitter refugees on Mastodon in mid-2022 as well as refusing to abandon their own culture which is disturbingly incompatible with Mastodon's. Essentially try and have four entire Fediverse server applications Fediblocked once and for all because they're so disturbing from a "Fediverse equals Mastodon" point of view. Or you could go to Mastodon's GitHub repository (<a href="https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon</a>), submit a feature request for defederating Mastodon from everything that isn't Mastodon by design and then go lobbying for support for your feature request. As for why I have so many hashtags below my comments, here is what they mean. Many of them are meant to trigger filters, including such that automatically hide posts behind content warning buttons, a feature that Mastodon has had since October, 2022, that Friendica has had since July, 2010, and that Hubzilla has had since March, 2015. <ul><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> = This post is over 500 characters long. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> = CW: long post (over 500 characters long). Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> = This post talks about the Fediverse. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> = CW: Fediverse meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>: This post talks about the Fediverse not only being Mastodon. Create a filter for either or multiple or all of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about the Fediverse being more than Mastodon. Otherwise, click or tap any of these hashtags to read more about it in your Fediverse app.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a>: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Friendica. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>: This post talks about the Swiss army knif of the Fediverse named Hubzilla. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Hubzilla. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a>: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse commonly referred to as (streams). Create a filter for either or both of them if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap either of them to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Forte. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Forte. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> = This post talks about alt-text and/or contains an image with alt-text. It is primarily meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> = This post talks about alt-text. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> = CW: alt-text meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> = This post talks about image descriptions and/or contains an image with an image description. It is primarily meant for post discovery.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> = This post talks about image descriptions. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> = CW: image description meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtag</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtags" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtags</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HashtagMeta</a> = This post talks about hashtags. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWHashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWHashtagMeta</a> = CW: hashtag meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> = This post is talking about character limits. It is primarily meant for post discovery. But if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about character limits, create a filter for any of these hashtags.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> = This post talks about quote-posts and/or contains a quote-post. If this disturbs you, create a filter for any of these hashtags.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePostDebate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePostDebate</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTootDebate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTootDebate</a> = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediblockMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediblockMeta</a> = This post is talking about fediblocks. It is primarily meant for post discovery.</li></ul> Lastly: Having all hashtags in one line at the very end of a post that only contains hashtags is the preferred way in the Fediverse. For one, hashtags in their own line at the end of the post irritate screen reader users much less than hashtags in the middle of the text. It's actually hashtags in the middle of the text that are ableist. Besides, Mastodon is explicitly designed to have a separate hashtag line at the end of the post.

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mspsocial.net/@bright_helpings" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Erik :heart_agender:</a> @<a href="https://beige.party/@roknrol" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Roknrol</a> What if I transcribe text within my image (for any definition of "text within my image") in a long image description in the post itself which I write in addition to the actual alt-text? And the alt-text explicitly mentions the long description at its end? E.g. "A more detailed description including explanations and text transcripts can be found in the post." I often have so many bits of text to transcribe (in addition to describing where in the image they are) that I can't fit them all into the 1,500-character limit for alt-texts that Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks impose on the whole Fediverse. I'm not talking about screenshots from social media or something. I'm talking about renderings from 3-D virtual worlds where there may be 20, 30, 40 or more bits of text strewn across the scenery within the borders of the image. The rule says that all text within an image must be transcribed 100% verbatim, and it doesn't explicitly mention any exception, so I do have to transcribe them all. In addition, if they aren't in English, I must additionally translate them as literally as possible. There's no way I can fit all this plus a sufficiently detailed and accurate visual description into 1,500 characters. But if you (or others) insist that all text within an image must be transcribed verbatim in the alt-text, and if you sanction image posts that transcribe the texts in the image elsewhere than in the alt-text, then I simply won't be able to post certain images in an appropriate way. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transcript" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Transcript</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transcripts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Transcripts</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> <blockquote>It's okay, you don't have to overthink it! Write how you'd describe the image to a friend over the phone.</blockquote> This only works with simple real-life photos. If your image shows more obscure stuff (like mine), <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">this does not work</a>. (@especially Mastodon users: The link goes to a Fediverse post that you may import into your timeline by copying the URL and searching for it.) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastoart.social/@elaterite" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bob Tregilus</a> Only that "my best" has actually led to unimaginable extremes. They say an image is worth a thousand words. I've once <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">described one image</a> in over 10,000 words. Over 60,000 characters. The post is so long that, I think, Misskey and its various forks have rejected it, as have Pleroma and Akkoma. It took me two full days, morning to evening, to describe that one image, in-world research included. And I actually had to limit myself. For once, I did not give in-depth descriptions of the images within that image, especially not beyond what's actually visible in these images. That's because I've discovered that if I were to do that, I'd have to describe dozens of images in one particular image (in my image) and potentially over a hundred images in these, even though they're so small that they're technically invisible. It would have taken me months to write all that. And it would have been futile anyway. My character limit is over 16 million, but Mastodon rejects posts over 100,000 characters, and in the few places that do accept posts with millions of characters, next to nobody cares about image descriptions. I haven't posted a new in-world image in over half a year. I've been working on-and-off on the descriptions for a series of rather simple avatar portraits since last autumn. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastoart.social/@elaterite" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bob Tregilus</a> Of course, this means that the more obscure the content of your image is, the more in-depth you will have to go. At worst, there's nothing in your image of which non-sighted people know what it looks like unless you describe it. Simply mentioning that it's there is not sufficient. My own original images aren't even photographs, nor are they pieces of art that represent real life. They're renderings from 3-D virtual worlds, very obscure 3-D virtual worlds even. Nobody knows what anything in these world looks like unless they can see it in my images. At the same time, however, chances are that they become so curious about these virtual worlds that they also become curious about everything in the image, not just what matters within the context of the post. That is, sometimes the image itself as a whole is the context. Either way, this means I can't just focus on certain elements in the image in my descriptions. I have to describe everything. So I've gotten to a point at which even filling the alt-text character limit forced by Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks (they cut longer alt-texts off at the 1,500-character mark) doesn't cut it. All my original images have two descriptions now. In addition to the one in the alt-text that's very limited, there is another one in the post that's more or less fully detailed, that contains transcripts of all text within the borders of the image, and that also comes with all explanations that I deem necessary. Since I don't have a character limit to worry about (the limit is defined by the database field rather than a hard-coded or configurable number), this description is likely to grow well over a hundred times longer than typical alt-text. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://toot.cat/@garry" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Garry Knight</a> @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@qurlyjoe" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">qurly(not curly)joe</a> This, by the way, is something that next to nobody in the Fediverse knows, and that many will deny and fight with all they can: Alt-text must never include exclusive information that is neither in the post text nor in the image itself. Such information must always go into the post itself. If you don't have room in the post, add it to a reply or multiple. That's because not everybody can access alt-text. Certain physical disabilities can make accessing alt-text impossible, for example, if someone can't use their hands. Money quote from way down <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/4376779b-8bd1-4da9-9c38-92a7fae57abb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">this comment thread</a>: <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Deborah</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hachyderm.io/@gnomicutterance/110691919197248049" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Mon, 10 Jul 2023 23:30:45 +0200 <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@jupiter_rowland</a> I have a disability that prevents me from seeing alt text, because on almost all platforms, seeing the alt requires having a screenreader or working hands. If you post a picture, is there info that you want somebody who CAN see the picture but DOESN’T have working hands to know? Write that in visible text. If you put that in the alt, you are explicitly excluding people like me. But you don’t have to overthink it. The description of the image itself is a simple concept. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Inclusion" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Inclusion</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/@angelastella" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ángela Stella Matutina</a> I'm talking about people who can't access alt-text due to physical disabilities. People with a strong tremor who cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image and keep it there steadily. They exist. It was one of them who told me that explanations don't belong into alt-text. Quadriplegic people or amputees. They operate their computers by poking the keyboard with a headpointer strapped to their forehead or with a kind of pen that they hold in their mouth. They have no way of using pointing devices whatsoever. They cannot move a mouse cursor onto an image because they don't have a mouse cursor. They use their computers entirely over the keyboard. All these people do not necessarily have a way of making alt-text a) appear and b) stay where it is for long enough for them to read it. If you regularly have a lot to explain in your images, don't put these explanations into the alt-text, just because you've only got 500 characters in your toots. Instead, move someplace in the Fediverse that offers more characters (e.g. Misskey: 3,000; Akkoma: 5,000; Friendica: unlimited). #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> @<a href="https://sfba.social/@dbloom" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">David Bloom</a> Yes. Explanations, or any other information available neither in the image nor in the post text, must never ever go into the alt-text. That's because not everyone can access alt-text. And to those who can't access alt-text, any information exclusively available in alt-text is inaccessible and therefore lost. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://cosocial.ca/@cogdog" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alan Levine</a> Judging by the advice I've read so far, it's always best to describe the colour using basic colours plus attributes such as brightness, saturation and what other basic colour or colours the colour you describe is leaning towards. For example, "light, yellowish orange", "a darker, slightly less saturated, slightly more brownish tone of orange", "various shades of slightly yellowish, medium-light-to-medium brown", "a solid, slightly pale medium blue with a minimal hint of green", "a medium-dark wood texture, slightly reddish, slightly greyish". All actually used by me in the long descriptions in (content warning: eye contact) <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">this image post</a>. If the name of the colour plays a role, use it and then describe the colour in the same way as above. Blind or visually-impaired people may not know what Prussian blue or Burgundy red looks like. @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.art/@FrostPoem" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">❄️Faerie❄️</a> @<a href="https://awscommunity.social/@cobalt" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">cobalt</a> @<a href="https://tweesecake.social/@BlindQuilter" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tanya McGee Wheatley 💜🥰</a> What do you say, is that appropriate, complete overkill or still insufficient? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.treehouse.systems/@angelastella" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ángela Stella Matutina</a> That's good. I've asked because I've got the feeling that alt-text/image description requirements are constantly being refined and raised in the Fediverse, and more and more existing descriptions won't pass anymore. See, I usually spend hours on meme posts, both describing the image in the alt-text and explaining it in the post. As for my original images, it can take me days to describe them twice over, once in a "short" description in the alt-text that's actually already fairly long, once in a "long" description the size of an essay or even a short story in the post itself. And I'm honestly waiting for the first to be so dissatisfied with that that they reply with their own alt-text and order me to both replace my alt-text with theirs and remove the long description from my post or else. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://caneandable.social/@WeirdWriter" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Robert Kingett</a> Honest question from an alt-text and image description perfectionist to a blind user: When is it actually accessible enough that whoever posts an image doesn't have to fear repercussions? Okay, there has to be an alt-text. It has to actually describe the image. So much is clear to me. And I guess that while at least some blind people in the Fediverse treasure whimsy higher than accuracy, others may want alt-text to be accurate. But it looks to me like there is a rather narrow margin between alt-text with not enough details and alt-text that's too long and/or too detailed. This isn't communicated anywhere. It's unclear, too, whether that margin is always the same, or whether it shifts with the content of the image, the context and someone's individual idea of who the audience of an image post is. And seriously, there are images that simply cannot be described in a way that's perfectly ideal and useful for absolutely everyone out there. I've posted such images in the past, and my image descriptions must have broken all length records in the Fediverse. But I think not everyone is happy about having to read through such monsters. CC: @<a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Stefan Bohacek</a> @<a href="https://piaille.fr/@shtrom" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Olivier Mehani</a> @<a href="https://wandering.shop/@AlinaLeonova" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alina Leonova</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://wetdry.world/@ipg" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Emma (IPG)</a> The readability aspect is interesting. It directly contradicts those who say that if text is illegible in the image, it doesn't have to or even mustn't be transcribed. And I myself go as far as transcribing text that's so tiny that it's invisible. But: Information that is not available in the image and not in the actual post either must never go into the alt-text! Not everyone can access alt-text. Not everyone is on a phone. Not all possible frontends support alt-text. And some people are phyiscally incapable of accessing alt-text, for example, because they can't use a pointing device such as a mouse or a trackball. If information is only available in the alt-text and nowhere else, it is completely inaccessible and therefore lost to a whole lot of people. Thus, explanations must always go somewhere where they can access them, ideally into the post. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.green/@CiaraNi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ciara</a> And yet, there are people trying to talk me out of it. For example, I shouldn't transcribe text that's so tiny that it isn't even recognisable in the image as text because it's only a blob of a dozen pixels. They say that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/c8a14063-b4e2-48fa-baf9-cb4faef7225b" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">40,000</a> or <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">60,000</a> characters of description and explanations for one image are too much. The only thing I'm reconsidering myself currently is whether to keep these monster descriptions in the post or put them into external documents and link to them. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.green/@CiaraNi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ciara</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@boab" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Boab</a> I guess there are enough signs that my image descriptions are hand-written, especially for my original virtual world renderings. <ul><li>Alt-texts which lately keep reaching exactly 1,500 characters or only few characters short of that limit.</li><li>Alt-texts that also mention an even longer image description in the post. And there is an even longer image description in the post. Who asks an AI to describe an image in lots of details and then again in even more details?</li><li>No AI can produce image descriptions with five-digit character counts like the long one in the post.</li><li>Excessive detail information about an absolutely obscure niche topic in the long description.</li><li>Description of visual details that aren't visible at the image's resolution.</li><li>Transcripts of text that isn't legible or not even visible at the image's resolution.</li><li>Sometimes I run an extra thread with an image-describing log.</li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter RowlandThis might go further than I've expected. Whenever I post a meme about nomadic identity, I'll have to explain nomadic identity in the post. But I'll probably also always have to explain Hubzilla and the streams repository and their entire family tree of forks so that people understand my explanation of nomadic identity. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Memes" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Memes</a>

Jupiter RowlandWorking on new strategy for describing and explaining meme images; CW: long (over 4,400 characters), Fediverse meta, alt-text meta, image description meta

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> About point 5 See three comments above. I'm already trying. But I'm pretty sure I'm not nearly trying hard enough. I can't call out behaviour that I don't see. And I don't see any racist, sexist, misogynist, ableist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic etc. behaviour in my stream, simply because I've semi-muted some 85% of my contacts to keep as much off-topic cruft away from my stream as possible. All I can do is adapt my own way of posting and minimise the damage I'm potentially dealing. But even that's limited. Take image posts, for example. My image descriptions can't possibly not be ableist to someone, even if each one of my images has two descriptions. My pictures of @juno may potentially be sexist to say the least. And I still haven't replaced my profile pictures with images without eye contact to protect neurodiverse users. My own contacts aren't intersectional enough themselves. I have at least one, maybe two Black women amongst the 15% who are permitted to send me their posts. But even that one trans woman amongst these 15% is white. And I do not follow anyone first who doesn't have anything to say that's interesting within the scope of my channel. (6/7) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Intersectional" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Intersectional</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Intersectionality" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Intersectionality</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sexist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sexist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sexism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sexism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misogynist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misogynist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misogyny" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misogyny</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Xenophobic" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Xenophobic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Xenophobia" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Xenophobia</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Homophobic" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Homophobic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Homophobia" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Homophobia</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transphobic" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Transphobic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transphobia" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Transphobia</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Racist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Racism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> I'm someone who usually follows all advice about good Fediverse behaviour to a tee. That is, as far as Hubzilla lets me, as long as it doesn't require me to abandon Hubzilla's own culture in favour of only Mastodon's culture, and as long as it doesn't require me to abandon a number of Hubzilla's key features because Mastodon doesn't have them. Some may say I'm overdoing the Mastodon-style content warning thing, at least in posts. Hubzilla doesn't support content warning in comments, and if I reply to something, it's always a comment and never a post. Otherwise you'd get one big honking Mastodon-style content warning here. You do get a huge pile of filter-triggering hashtags, though. Some may say I'm overdoing the image description thing. My image descriptions in alt-text are among the longest in the Fediverse, and these are my short descriptions. My long descriptions for the same images which go into the posts are the longest, most detailed, most explanatory image descriptions in the Fediverse, full stop. And I keep raising my own standards. I only have one image description which I don't consider outdated, obsolete and sub-standard yet. So I'd normally love to fulfill everything in your post to a tee by my definition of "a tee". And my definition of "to a tee" is everyone else's definition of "Are you completely insane, man?!" But this time, it's more difficult. Call me racist, but it's more difficult. (1/7) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CW" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CW</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWs" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWs</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarning" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarning</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarnings" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarnings</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ContentWarningMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ContentWarningMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtag</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtags" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hashtags</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HashtagMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWHashtagmeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWHashtagmeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Filters" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Filters</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Racist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Racism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://veganism.social/@MichalBryxi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Michal Bryxí 🌱</a> And while I'm at it, here's a quote-post of my comment in which I review the second AI description. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/451d2f06-7746-4227-a043-76a959420c29?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Sat, 18 May 2024 00:24:46 +0200 It's almost hilarious how clueless the AI was again. And how wrong. First of all, the roof isn't curved in the traditional sense. The end piece kind of is, but the roof behind it is more complex. Granted, unlike me, the AI can't look behind the roof end, so it doesn't know. Next, the roof end isn't reflective. It isn't even glossy. And brushed stainless steel shouldn't really reflect anything. The AI fails to count the columns that hold the roof end, and it claims they're evenly spaced. They're anything but. There are three letters "M" on the emblem, but none of them is stand-alone.There is visible text on the logo that does provide additional context: "Universal Campus", "patefacio radix" and "MMXI". Maybe LLaVA would have been able to decipher at least the former, had I fed it the image at its original resolution of 2100x1400 pixels instead of the one I've uploaded with a resolution of 800x533 pixels. Decide for yourself which was or would have been cheating. "Well-maintained lawn". Ha. The lawn is painted on, and the ground is so bumpy that I wouldn't call it well-maintained. The entrance of the building is visible. In fact, three of the five entrances are. Four if you count the one that can be seen through the glass on the front. And the main entrance is marked with that huge structure around it. The "few scattered clouds" are mostly one large cloud. At least LLaVA is still capable of recognising a digital rendering and tells us how. Just you wait until PBR is out, LLaVA. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImagDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImagDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AIVsHuman" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AIVsHuman</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HumanVsAI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HumanVsAI</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://veganism.social/@MichalBryxi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Michal Bryxí 🌱</a> And since you obviously haven't actually read anything I've linked to, here's a quote-post of my comment in which I dissect the first AI description. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/display/b64.aHR0cHM6Ly9odWIubmV0emdlbWVpbmRlLmV1L2l0ZW0vZmI4NzdmMWItODM4Yy00N2U0LWE4YjMtNmFlMzMzNzQyOTBi?f=&zid=eupolicy.social%40eupolicy.social" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Tue, 05 Mar 2024 20:28:12 +0100 (This is actually a comment. Find another post further up in this thread.) Now let's pry LLaVA's image description apart, shall we? <blockquote>The image appears to be a 3D rendering or a screenshot from a video game or a virtual environment.</blockquote> Typical for an AI: It starts vague. That's because it isn't really sure what it's looking at. This is not a video game. It's a 3-D virtual world. At least, LLaVA didn't take this for a real-life photograph. <blockquote>It shows a character</blockquote> It's an avatar, not a character. <blockquote>standing on a paved path with a brick-like texture.</blockquote> This is the first time that the AI is accurate without being vague. However, there could be more details to this. <blockquote>The character is facing away from the viewer,</blockquote> And I can and do tell the audience in my own image description why my avatar is facing away from the viewer. Oh, and that it's the avatar of the creator of this picture, namely myself. <blockquote>looking towards a sign or information board on the right side of the image.</blockquote> Nope. Like the AI could see the eyeballs of my avatar from behind. The avatar is actually looking at the cliff in the background. Also, it's clearly an advertising board. <blockquote>The environment is forested with tall trees and a dense canopy, suggesting a natural, possibly park-like setting.</blockquote> If I'm generous, I can let this pass as not exactly wrong. Only that there is no dense canopy, and this is not a park. <blockquote>The lighting is subdued, with shadows cast by the trees, indicating either early morning or late afternoon.</blockquote> Nope again. It's actually late morning. The AI doesn't know because it can't tell that the Sun is in the southeast, and because it has got no idea how tall the trees actually are, what with almost all treetops and half the shadow cast by the avatar being out of frame. <blockquote>The overall atmosphere is calm and serene.</blockquote> In a setting inspired by thrillers from the 1950s and 1960s. You're adorable, LLaVA. Then again, it was quiet because there was no other avatar present. There's a whole lot in this image that LLaVA didn't mention at all. First of all, the most blatant shortcomings. First of all, the colours. Or the lack of them. LLaVA doesn't say with a single world that everything is monochrome. What it's even less aware of is that the motive itself is monochrome, i.e. this whole virtual place is actually monochrome, and the avatar is monochrome, too. Next, what does my avatar look like? Gender? Skin? Hair? Clothes? Then there's that thing on the right. LLaVA doesn't even mention that this thing is there. It doesn't mention the sign to the left, it doesn't mention the cliff at the end of the path, it doesn't mention the mountains in the background, and it's unaware of both the bit of sky near the top edge and the large building hidden behind the trees. And it does not transcribe even one single bit of text in this image. And now for what I think should really be in the description, but what no AI will ever be able to describe from looking at an image like this one. A good image description should mention where an image was taken. AIs can currently only tell that when they're fed famous landmarks. AI won't be able to tell from looking at this image that it was taken at the central crossroads at Black White Castle, a sim in the OpenSim-based Pangea Grid anytime soon. And I'm not even talking about explaining OpenSim, grids and all that to people who don't know what it is. Speaking of which, the object to the right. LLaVA completely ignores it. However, it should be able to not only correctly identify it as an OpenSimWorld beacon, but also describe what it looks like and explain to the reader what an OpenSimWorld beacon is, what OpenSimWorld is etc. because it should know that this can not be expected to be common knowledge. My own description does that in round about 5,000 characters. And LLaVA should transcribe what's written on the touch screen which it should correctly identify as a touch screen. It should also mention the sign on the left and transcribe what's written on it. In fact, all text anywhere within the borders of the picture should be transcribed 100% verbatim. Since there's no rule against transcribing text that's so small that it's illegible or that's so tiny that it's practically invisible or that's partially obscured or partially out of frame, a good AI should be capable of transcribing such text 100% verbatim in its entirety as well. Unless text is too small for me to read in-world, I can and do that. And how about not only knowing that the advertising board is an advertising board, but also mentioning and describing what's on it? Technically speaking, there's actually a lot of text on that board, and in order to transcribe it, its context needs to be described. That is, I must admit I was sloppy myself and omitted a whole lot of transcriptions in my own description. Still, AI has a very very long way to go. And it will never fully get there. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImagDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImagDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LLaVA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LLaVA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AI</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AIVsHuman" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AIVsHuman</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HumanVsAI" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">HumanVsAI</a>

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